Suggesting that “virtually everyone [is] a collectivist when it comes to heath care” reform1, here is an exchange between former Republican now Democrat Senator Arlen Specter and a woman at a recent town hall meeting:
One woman prompted a standing ovation by telling Specter: “I don’t believe this is just health care. This is about the systematic dismantling of this country. … I don’t want this country turning into Russia, turning into a socialized country. What are you going to do to restore this country back to what our founders created, according to the Constitution?”
Specter responded by noting his support for the Constitution as a past chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee on issues such as warrantless wiretaps.
“When you ask me to defend the Constitution, that’s what I’ve been doing,” Specter said.
Specter said that overhauling the health care system is about America taking care of all of its people.
“In our social contract, we have provisions that see to it that you take care of people who need some help,” he said.2
There’s that inauspicious phrase “social contract” used to describe the agreement between the rulers and those they rule written about in the post on Collectivism.
While it may be possible that elected officials like Mr. Specter are sincere in their intent to take care of society’s unfortunates, it is more likely that providing for the material wants of constituents only keeps the so-called “elected” in power. On this note, with some prescience J. Reuben Clark, Jr. wrote in 1943:
Before this war began, the Government had already entered the general insurance field with a Social Security plan, which covers unemployment compensation, Federal insurance contributions and benefits, and Federal old age and survivors insurance benefits. Other socialistic plans—such as socialized medicine—seem in the immediate offering. Thus the principle of Federal insurance of the individual is thoroughly established and working. It is not a long step from this to set up Federal life insurance. In the beginning, this Federal life insurance may be a side-by-side enterprise with existing private-company life insurance, mutual or others. But almost certainly the Government will, if present plans carry through, soon crowd down the regular life insurance companies, absorb their assets, and put their 67 million policyholders—half the entire population of the nation—on the public payrolls to be the wards of the Government. Thereafter life insurance will be one—perhaps the most important one—of the political shibboleths with which glib-lipped politicians of all parties will bid for votes.
It is not necessary here to argue the calamity which this could bring into our existing national financial, economic, and government life. To put 67 million citizens squarely behind any political nostrum would guarantee the continuance in power of its purveyors. I suppose further that no one would seriously deny that the taking over by the Government of the whole institution of life insurance would be one of the most important factors in establishing a communistic state.3
It is interesting that President Clark suggested that a public life insurance plan would exist “side-by-side” with private insurance plans until government took over the whole of it. According to the CNN story about Arlen Specter’s health care town hall meeting today:
Most Democrats want a public option to ensure coverage is available to virtually all Americans and provide competition to private insurers.
So the same government that regulates private insurance providers will now compete with those same private companies in order to provide “competition”?
Hum . . . I wonder who will win in the long run?
Sources:
- See Health Care Collectivists.↩
- “Specter Faces Hostile Audience at Health Care Forum”. CNN. 11 August 2009.↩
- Newquist, Jerreld L., ed. “The Welfare State – Creeping Socialism”. Prophets, Principles, and National Survival. Salt Lake City: Publishers Press, 1964. 364.↩
Related posts
Tags: Arlen Specter, Collectivism, Communism, Health Care, J. Reuben Clark, Socialism
-
Mex Davis
on August 11, 2009 at 1:14 pm
It is interesting that most of the same prople talking about not wanting Socialism are already going down that path with Medicare, Social Security, public schools, universities, pstial service, Police and fire Services and other major government programs. We must not forget our history with the United Order, Unified Missionary Funds, the Perpitual Education Fund, Fast Offerings, etc, etc. I think most citizens equate Communism and Socialism as the same, far from it. Also in the BofM we read after the visit of Christ the people lived for centuries with all things in common and no poor amoung them. One has to wonder how or in what manner did they accomplished that feat. I’m not defending Congress in their efforts to do something about this major problem but we should be dealing with the real issues (costs, controls, fairness, government managed, etc) instead of the old scare phrase of ‘Socialism’. IMO, they are going to pass something regradless of the feelings displayed by the people, as in the past baleouts, mortgage bills and auto company bankurptcies.
-
Joel
on August 11, 2009 at 4:31 pm
It’s even more simple. This has NOT awakened a great sleeping giant, as one undereducated bimbo decried. Instead, it is a prime example of the complete failure of the National Media to focus on FACT, as well as proof that the Republicans have been somewhat successful in stirring the “bottom of the intellectual pot.” Not to mention an all white one. Look at any video, and count the number of faces that aren’t white. Find any?
But more importantly, highlighting FACT, one town hall participant stated she didn’t want Congress hurting the “best health care system in the world.” Sorry Granny, we’re 37th, behind each of the systems you criticized including England and Canada. That my dear is a FACT, so if this is the best we can do as a nation, then for God’s sake, give me the worst.
-
Scott A. Robinson
on August 11, 2009 at 6:03 pm
I’m sure it wasn’t always easy to live with “all things in common”, but it was successful because each member of the society chose to give of their possessions. All government-run wealth redistribution programs (SS, Medicare/Medicaid, food stamps, ect.) force people to give up their possessions (or potential possessions) through taxes. As it is, roughly 50% of the US tax bill is paid by the top 5% of wage earners and nearly half of all wage earners do not pay taxes (e.g. at the end of the year get a larger “tax return” than they paid in).
What this all comes down to is choice. When we choose to share with others, we can successfully live with all things in common and have no poor. When it is forced upon us, that is Satan’s plan.
-
Carla Rosenbaum
on August 11, 2009 at 6:08 pm
In the “70s Ronald Reagan said …. If Medicare passes the country will become socialist. Funny, it passed. It is the best care for seniors, I would go as for as saying the ONLY affordable care for most seniors. Try to buy insurance on the open market. I am 63 and can’t afford it.
United Health Care aka: The Lewin Group is with the GOP, I wonder why? Do they have an interest in no change, no public option? UHC just paid the largest fine for deceptive practices ever. The suit brought by a user group (ie real patients) Do we want them in charge?
I am sorry in America, we are no longer civil. You know: to hear answers, someone has to listen. Shouting down others is not debate. Shoving others is rude. Lies are sensational, but stupid. I can read.
-
Mike
on August 11, 2009 at 9:08 pm
Socialism leads to Communism – Karl Marx
-
Mike
Those who think America is not the best health care system are welcome to get their health care elsewhere. As for any problems that the current system may offer you, a free market solution is the most efficient way of overcoming those problems.
All government programs are initially hailed with a lot of fanfare as though they are superior alternatives to the private sector version. Sad experience has shown this to not pan out. Social security – poor return on investment – and uncertain future. Medicaid , Medicare – cost way more than ever projected or intended. And laden with a “healthy” dose of fraud. Over 60 billion dollars worth.
I believe in separation of business and state. The government should get out of the way of business, and it is government regulation that has produced the plethora of encumbrances to efficient operation in the marketplace, and now they want to plant the final death kiss on the patient. No thanks. If they want to compete, force them to compete on an incentive basis – force them to turn a profit. Rather than force 300 million Americans to be in bondage to a system in order that 15 million may attain health care. Target the needy, not the whole country.
-
Greg
on August 11, 2009 at 10:07 pm
Wow – A lot of comments tonight to this post. So let me try to address each as best I can.
Mex – Unless I am mistaken, I believe you are a first time commenter here, so you are probably unfamiliar with much of the material on this blog concerning many of the topics you mention above. While you point out that we already have many socialist programs in place, it’s wise to keep in mind that Socialism Is Not Free. And although there are some similarities between the United Order and its man-made counterfeit socialism, there are some very distinct differences which were outlined by Elder Marion G. Romney in his general conference talk Socialism and the United Order Compared of April 1966. Also, far from being a “scare” tactic, LDS Church leaders consistently warned of the affects of “creeping” socialism and communism upon those principles vouchsafed in the U.S. constitution. A good reference is Prophets, Principles and National Survival.
Joel – Interesting perspective. I agree there are certainly problems with the present system, however I don’t know that socializing the health care system will solve these. In fact, how many of these problems are already the result of heavy government regulation? For example, see the CATO Institute’s article Health Care Regulation: A $169 Billion Hidden Tax.
Scott – Thank you! How easy it is to forget that the key difference is moral agency and freedom to choose. Somehow it appears that many forget The Moral Principle in the Socialist Debate.
Carla – Reagan was perhaps a little behind the times. As outlined in Robert Higgs’ Crisis and Leviathan, the United States began to abandon free market principles in the late 1800s if not earlier. And while this is no personal consolation, the fact that Medicare is the “ONLY affordable care for most seniors” underscores the success of the Health Care Collectivists.
-
ThereTheyGoAgain
on August 12, 2009 at 4:24 am
People hide behind the US flag and claim patriotism. Lies compounded by lies and massive armies of lobbyists in Washington. Who’s side are they on? Can’t be mine or my family. Conservative Religious Republican Wackos are turning more and more bizarre and violent. These people are being whipped into a revolution by people such as Rush Limbaugh. I think he and his kind should be charged with sedition and intent to tear down the US government. Patriot? Hardly a molecule in him. He does have the ear of the fringe and highly susceptible to his manipulations. The massively orchestrated town hall meeting disruptions do not help their cause any. I have nothing but contempt for these people. Civility is the rule here and they have none. All they are succeeding in showing the nation is their utter contempt for the President, who is a black man dully elected by the people. Extreme bigotry? You decide, I know. It is not enough that the conservatives nearly destroyed the nation over the last administration, they want to finish the job started by George and Dick. I see the extreme wacko controlled Republican party disappearing from the face of the earth and hopefully a new and more humane and civil one taking its place. Yes I know that Health Care needs to change, but it will not happen when these undemocratic tactics are being used by the radical fringe of society. I do not want them making decisions for me and my family.
-
Elaine
on August 12, 2009 at 5:19 am
One of the excellent aspects of the current American health care system is that most people can get immediate help if they become very ill. Not true in places like Canada or the UK, where waiting lines for crucial imaging tests can range in the several months, which can mean the difference between living and dying. USA rates are #1.
Research shows that cancer patients live longer in the United States than anywhere else on the globe.
A federally run plan would drive insurance companies, hospitals and doctors into bankruptcy, leaving only the government to provide coverage, often called single payer system.In England, obese people are not allowed specific procedures because they are not the most productive segment in society.
I’m not making this up. A friend in the medical field in London had provided me with the info.
-
Elaine
Subject: Healthcare Comparison
A recent Investor’s Business Daily article provided some interesting statistics from a survey by the United Nations International Health Organization.
(England and Canada have government run healthcare)
% Men & Women who survived a cancer five years after diagnosis
U.S. 65%
England 46%
Canada 42%% Patients diagnosed with Diabetes who received treatment within six months:
U.S. 93%
England 15%
Canada 43%% Seniors needing hip replacement who received it within six months:
U.S. 90%
England 15%
Canada 43%% referred to a medical specialist who see one within one month:
U.S. 77%
England 40%
Canada 43%Number of MRI Scanners (a prime diagnostic tool) per Million people
U.S. 71
England 14
Canada 18% of seniors (65+), with low income, who say they are in “excellent health”
U.S. 12%
England 2%
Canada 6% -
Elaine
International comparisons establish that the most important factors in cancer survival are early diagnosis, time to treatment and access to the most effective drugs. Some uninsured cancer patients in the United States encounter problems with timely treatment and access, but a far larger proportion of cancer patients in Europe face these troubles. No country on the globe does as good a job overall as the United States. Thus, the U.S. government should focus on ensuring that all cancer patients receive timely care, rather than radically overhauling the current system.
-
Elaine
The argument is not to reform or not to reform our current healthcare system.
Everyone I have spoken to that is against the current plan proposed, agrees that some reform is necessary.
1) Why not focus on what’s broken and fix that vs. a complete takeover of the healthcare system by the government? There are many of us that are very pleased with our healthcare (80%-85%).
2) Why this “rush, rush get this thing passed”? I would like to see us take our time with this extremely important cause that could permantly change American lives.
3) In the current state of the economy, is this the time to add a $1.6 trillion dollar deficit to the country? Who’s going to pay for this? (Taxing the rich alone will not even come close to paying for this and printing money will further devalue the dollar and take us into inflation, resulting in everything costing more)
I believe the above questions are valid and reasonable.
-
Greg
ThereTheyGoAgain – Quoting from an issue of Babson’s Washington Forecast Letter:
Who are we to indict for sparking this chaos in America? Are the prime defendants the Stokely Carmichaels, the H. Rap Browns, the hippies, the draftcard burners, the peaceniks, the juvenile delinquents, the rabble-rousers, the Commies who have gained respectability as honest dissenters? Certainly, most of these could be brought before the bar of justice to answer charges of law violations and they should be.
However, there is a stronger, truer bill of indictment which may be drawn against those who have invited the bloody blackmail of America by permitting, even encouraging, mounting civil disobedience. . . .
These men of power, prestige, and great influence in the political structure of America have permitted the concept of `freedom of speech’ to be expanded to include subversion, intimidation, sedition, and incitement to riot; they have condoned the distortion of `academic freedom’ to encompass the adulteration of young minds with Communist doctrine and the disintegration of a well-disciplined educational system; they have allowed `freedom of assembly’ to mushroom into disruption of peaceful activity, mob rule, riot, and insurrection.
Unless those in authority in the United States can be influenced to abandon the suicidal course on which they have embarked—or unless they can be replaced by men who will—we cannot hope to restore in our nation the kind of domestic peace and order which has made our many generations proud to be Americans . . . living in a land of freedom, security, opportunity, and justice under law.
The crisis we now face is the most serious, the most dangerous, in the history of our country. Each of us must diligently employ our influence and our effort—in speech, letters, and at the ballot box—to help set straight the way. (Quoted in Benson, Ezra Taft. “Americans are Destroying America“. Rogmo.com. 12 August 2009.)
-
Greg
Elaine – Which begs the question, is bankruptcy one of the goals of the plan?
-
Greg
Elaine – Do you believe it is necessary to radically overhaul the health care system as Arlen Specter and others state?
-
Greg
Elaine – Thank you for being a voice of reason.
Perhaps one of the reasons there is such a “rush” to get the health care legislation passed is because it is a political maxim that “crisis” creates the best opportunity to leverage political capital. As mentioned in one of my replies above, Robert Higgs’ Crisis and Leviathan is an excellent treatise on how this is accomplished and can be ordered via the Believe All Things Store.
-
Mex Davis
Greg – Yes first time but not really new that out of it. I’ll take back the comments on the church aspect but I wasn’t defending the government programs or the NEW efforts in the medical care drive of today. I’m sure it won’t be good as all other US run programs. But we need to do something about the poor and uninsured. We can’t set and be happy that 40-50 million people are at risk. I don’t know the answers. But the BofM people nailed it, shame on us. One other point it is interesting that Congress is making out the Insurance Companies as the villians when every year they pour money into PACs and congressional pockets. It’s fun to watch them turn on each other. The truth is that the Insurance Companies will help write some of the program specs and get something out of all this. From my experience it seems that the people that most complain about the Canadian or English system are Americans (USA). But I stand corrected, there is a big difference between the Lord’s and mans programs. It is the great commandment that addresses the love of God and the love of our neighbors.
-
Greg
Hey Mex, no problem. You bring up a very important and valid point of view. I didn’t mean to discount that. On the contrary, government can and should have a role in alleviating the sick and the afflicted in society. However, a state-sponsored health care plan run by the federal government is not the answer. In the conclusion to the post History of Socialized Medicine in America, Dr. Edward R. Annis stated:
What I have related is not an exaggerated fantasy. It is in fact true history and provides a realistic perspective as to how the Lilliputian-like bands have been steadily applied to harness our profession. In our society, things don’t happen — people make them happen!
I agree that those who were spared the destruction of the great earthquake (3 Nephi 8) as recorded in the Book of Mormon “nailed it”. But what a price they paid before they “had all things in common” and “were all made free, and partakers of the heavenly gift” (4 Nephi 1:3)!
They allowed the Gadianton Robbers to overthrow their society and suffered immeasurably (3 Nephi 9) while those Gadiantons who followed after “king Jacob” were “burned with fire” due to their role in destroying the government (3 Nephi 9:9).
It was only after severe repentance and by offering up a sacrifice of a Broken Heart and Contrite Spirit that those who remained were able to receive the “heavenly gift” as promised.
-
Mex Davis
Yes, a government run program is not the answer. but as you know when you turn 65 Medicare maybe the only option as cost for a private policy is beyond most retirees funds. Medicare is not a well run program and will require more funds every year just to handle the demands. If we can’t handle a program for less, how in the heck are we going to handle a program for everyone. I still think the BofM program is an answer but we’d have to make some major changes to get there, starting with the broken heart thing and more. Just remember the opposite of progress is congress as in pros and cons. Enough of all this, on to the next blog.
-
Mike
The whole obsession with health care is misguided. If I had a choice, I would not have ANY health care. I prefer to care for myself. Allopathic medicine has hurt my family far more than helped it. The third highest cause of death is prescription medication. When doctors in Israel went on strike, the death rate decreased to the point where morticians logged a formal complaint to the government. To be really healthy, one must not be under the illusion that throwing money at the problem will solve anything.
You have to change your diet. You have to exercise. You have to avoid white sugar, white flour, allergens, and balance your hormones. You have to know which vitamins are useful and which to avoid. You have to realize that there are simple home remedies for many illnesses and diseases, that the big pharmaceutical companies hope you don’t find out about. Normal mainstream doctors do not teach you this. You have to go alternative.
My alternative doctor has helped me far more in the past two years than allopathic doctors have in my entire 52 years of life. The only thing useful with allopathic medicine is for unavoidable surgeries.
The old aphorism that “for every thousand people hacking at the leaves of evil, there is only one striking at the root” applies in this case.
Money never bought you health or happiness. Wisdom can and will if you seek it out. And to take from the rich and the middle class, robbing from them the fruit of their labors, to bestow entitlements upon the poor, and purchase their votes, is simply wrong headed, although it fulfills the Christmas wish list fantasies of the godless left. These economic ideas have failed everywhere they have been tried, from Cuba, to East Germany, to the USSR, to the Icarian movement in old Nauvoo.
Why it is necessary to overhaul the health care system for 300 million people, when less than 15 million people are truly underinsured has more to do with unrighteous dominion than with charity. This is a trojan horse to achieve political power while donning a cloak of moral altruism. To really solve this problem requires removing the government regulations that contribute to the inefficiency, strengthening the incentive to achieve health goals, rather than merely treat symptoms, and encouraging innovative alternative health practitioners.
This legislation doesn’t even address tort reform which is likely the biggest hidden cost in today’s health care system. It tramples on the profit motive which is the single biggest factor driving the economic engine. It is micromanaging the economy. The Congress is seeking to be an interloper in the affairs of its citizens and dictate to us what we can buy and what we cannot.
I encourage the separation of business and state as the best engine to drive prosperity. The free market system is clearly the greatest wealth machine ever conceived. I don’t understand why we should allow autocrats to use the power of law to do for us what we can do ourselves, better. When the government competes with business, everyone loses except the government. I used to work for the government. I know how it works. We should have the least government possible; we could solve our problems much better and faster.
We need to face the fact that we cannot have ultimate security in this life. There will be pain and hurt. Money can’t change that. Our financial wants and needs will always exceed our money supply. What makes us believe that we will ever have enough money in a system that by design has us fighting over possession of it?
-
Scott A. Robinson
Mike,
Interesting points about managing your own health through lifestyle. I recently wrote on this here, based largely on a friend’s in medical school’s opinion.
-
frankg
on August 23, 2009 at 2:36 pm
I don’t see how this plan can be one of “choose to keep your plan if you like it” if government may tax individuals and businesses for not being in the public option. You know that alone will just allow the stanglehold of taxes, regulation, and political meddling to euthanize the private market.
And I don’t want to wait to see if the gang that can’t run social security (depleted), medicare (huge fraud, waste, unaccountability), VA hospitals (abuse and negligence), etc. run my personal health care. And to be lectured by architects of the mortgage meltdown is absurd. They should be outed from office for that, not left in power to “solve” the problems they’ve created.
Add to that some proponents of this government plan have said in the past they are for single payer and they are willing to get there incrementally. Can you who slander opponents of this “reform” not understand why Americans are angry and feel they have been lied to, kept uninformed by the media and branded extremists for asking questions, objecting to murky language in a 1000+ page bill lauded by activists who describe it as a path to single payer?
I don’t want our health care to be degraded to what the rest of the “civilized” (read government controlled permanent job security vote buying program) world has to endure. Its all about seizing more taxes, creating more bureaucracy (how many new agencies created by this reform bill?), and leaving us scraps in exchange for freedom.
Thanks Elaine for the health care comparison stats.I just can’t believe obama anymore after all his budget snafus (his allies can’t do math or pay taxes I guess) as pointed out by the CBO. I think he doesn’t care what all this spending does to our economy.
Or is the CBO racist as well as people who disagree with this monstrosity of a bill that explodes our already enormous debt?
-
Mike
Yes, I agree with frankg. In fact I would go further. But I won’t for now.
-
J.R.
on September 14, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Elaine, please cite specific Investors Business Daily article by date and provide URL address for the article. Searching for your claimed survey statistics in IBD have produced no results.
-
Scott A. Robinson
Elaine is referring to this chart:
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/AnotherLookPopUp.aspx?id=328231504646360
-
Greg
Thanks for the reference Scott.
-
J.R.
Scott – Thank you for the URL for the chart. I’m at the IBD site now. Is there an article the chart went with? The page with the chart does not reveal source of data. -
Search
27 comments
Comments feed for this article
Trackback link: http://www.believeallthings.com/3379/arlen-specter-health-care-town-hall/trackback/